Yeah I learned this the hard way, they're pulling a monumental scam with those discs. If you order these don't even expect a limited success rate. I haven't been able to get single useable disc out of about a dozen completely different attempts. Look at the bright side though, they can be used as: A) Coasters B) Frisbee's C) Steak Knives, the edges cut my finger so I think you could use them to cut beef. Har Har.